How did lipstick become a key economic indicator? Why is Paris the beauty capital of the world? And what can we learn from South Korea’s booming male cosmetics market? In this episode, we’ll interview economist Daniel MacDonald and textured hair expert and entrepreneur Dr. Aude Livoreil-Djampou. We'll take to the streets of Paris, asking people what "French beauty" really means. And finally, we’ll fly to Seoul and speak to Shawn Issure, a content creator and K-beauty expert, who is joined by a translator and talks about the rise in male beauty consumption.
How did lipstick become a key economic indicator? Why is Paris the beauty capital of the world? And what can we learn from South Korea’s booming male cosmetics market?
In this episode, we’ll interview economist Daniel MacDonald and textured hair expert and entrepreneur Dr. Aude Livoreil-Djampou. We'll take to the streets of Paris, asking people what "French beauty" really means. And finally, we’ll fly to Seoul and speak to Shawn Issure, a content creator and K-beauty expert, who is joined by a translator and talks about the rise in male beauty consumption.
Isabella [00:00:01] Hello there. I'm Isabella Rossellini. And as an actress and model, beauty has shaped the industry in which I made my name. And now, in this new series from L'Oréal Groupe, I am on a mission to explore the serious role beauty plays in things we take seriously. So, this is not a beauty podcast. It's a politics podcast. A sports podcast, A tech podcast. And today, it is a business podcast.
You've heard the expression, “Money makes the world go round.” And in many ways it is true — the fluctuation of markets, the latest tech giant going public, the comings and goings of the world's billionaires. The world watches with bated breath. Some see the world of beauty as niche, and some think that only women play with it. But beauty is big business.
In Europe, three beauty companies are among the top 10 businesses ranked by the market capitalization. And the European beauty industry alone employs 3 million people. That is a big number. But it turns out that you can also understand the economy through a very small lens — the size of a tube of lipstick, in fact, as our producer Gigi found out with economics professor Daniel MacDonald.
Daniel [00:01:40] Normally, when the economy goes through a recession, a period of downturn, you would expect that people would spend less on most goods. So, groceries, entertainment, clothing. The lipstick effect is a very interesting phenomenon where, instead of consumption going down, we see consumption actually going up. And even if consumption itself doesn't go up, we might see the fraction of a person's income that's spent on lipstick go up. So it's kind of a puzzle from an economic standpoint.
The modern discussion of the lipstick effect emerged during the Great Recession, when L'Oréal made an observation about how their sales were doing during the Great Recession. So the Great Recession is defined as this period from December 2007 to June of 2009, in which a very serious and long downturn in the economy occurred — millions of people who lost their jobs, and not just for a few months, like in the pandemic, but for many years. It was a very long, protracted economic downturn. So when L'Oréal speaks up in, say, 2007, 2008, and says, Well, we're actually doing pretty well, you know, our sales have been pretty robust over the last year, our revenues are solid and our forecast for the future is strong, this made a lot of people pay attention to them and try to understand what could be going on.
Me and my coauthor had done some research on the lipstick effect, and one of the explanations that we were reading about, we weren't really convinced completely that this was the reason for the lipstick effect. The reason that was given in the previous literature had to do with women who, during times of economic uncertainty or downturn, decide to purchase more lipstick or other cosmetics products to make themselves more marketable or more attractive in the dating market because of the reduced number of viable males for mates. And we weren't very happy or very satisfied with this explanation. It's kind of a sexist explanation, and it doesn't really capture what we think was a real economic reason why women might be making this decision.
Gigi [00:04:15] And so what, when you set out to prove it wrong, what did you discover instead?
Daniel [00:04:19] So, the way that these consumption data are collected is, households fill out a diary of all expenditures that they make over a two-week time period. They log their expenditures in this diary, this consumption diary, and then they hand it over to statisticians who take the data and convert it into use. And so what we were able to do is, we were able to access this data, and we just did some simple statistics to see, well, what was the average cosmetics expenditures for single women before the recession? What we found is that compared to 2005 and 2006, in 2007, 2008 and 2009, average cosmetics expenditures increased. And then what we did is, we looked at average expenditures on other categories of goods that people spend: groceries, nights out — so, food away from home, like at restaurants — clothing. And we found that average expenditures in those categories went down a little bit. And precisely because lipstick and other cosmetics are things that might be, you know, part of a daily purchase of a household like, say, on a weekend or a day off, we were able to capture a lot of these kinds of expenditures, a lot of these purchases. We're not basing our data on just a few data points. We have thousands of data points and observations where we see this pattern happening. And this happened for both women who were single and married.
And so we thought that this was incompatible with this idea that women were purchasing them in order to, you know, be viable on the dating market, or whatever. So this led us to our alternative hypothesis, which was that, in times of economic uncertainty, people might decide to purchase something that's a little cheaper, that's a little bit more affordable, still to treat themselves, but to do it in a way that was just a little bit more cost effective, a little bit more economical.
Gigi [00:06:26] So I guess one of the biggest recent economic downswings in very recent history would have been around Covid. Can you talk a little bit about what's been called the lipstick effect and how it relates to Covid?
Daniel [00:06:38] Sure. The question of Covid is very interesting, because in addition to the economic downturn we also had social restrictions, isolation. So the question is naturally, What happened during the lipstick effect during this time? But I would caution people to avoid making any references to the lipstick effect during Covid, just because it was such a short-lived economic downturn. So, for example, here in the U.S., the National Bureau of Economic Research identifies the precise months during which the pandemic-induced recession occurred. And it was just two months. So the economy was back in growth mode, for example, by the summer. By June, July, might not have felt that way, but the quote-unquote pandemic-induced recession was essentially over by that time.
The Great Recession was really a perfect context for our research, because it was a very long, protracted economic downturn. And the reason why we call it the Great Recession is because it was the largest economic downturn since the Great Depression. And the reason why that's interesting is because the lipstick effect actually first emerged during the Great Depression. The first discussions of this idea that women might be raising their hemlines or doing other things to attract males at a time when the unemployment rate was very high, and so there weren't a lot of income-earning males, that's when we saw this first idea that the lipstick effect might be emerging during an economic downturn. And again, specifically, this mechanism of wanting to attract men, right, who are kind of more scarce because there's not as many income-earning and employed men as there are.
Gigi [00:08:25] So the way that we're talking about it is incredibly gendered. Is there a way that it also applies to men?
Daniel [00:08:30] I think so. Our research did not explore this, but I do think it's an area for possibly future research. For example, this mechanism, this idea that people seek to treat themselves in a more frugal manner when the economy is not doing so well, I think is first of all, it's a pretty easy logic to understand and appreciate. And I do think that it's definitely not as gendered, at least as the conversation has been up until now. So, for example, for men, it might not be cosmetics or lipstick, but it might be treating themselves to a nice bottle of whiskey or a specialty six-pack of beer, or maybe a nice piece of clothing or something that is not kind of out of the range of someone whose income has gone down. I do think it would be really interesting to study this in different cultural contexts. For example, I know right now in China, China is going through a major downturn in their housing market and in their broader economy. And there’s been some discussion that, you know, perhaps some leading indicators of this are alcohol sales, which have declined, some premium alcohol sales have declined, and some other products, people are spending less on those.
But I think what the lipstick effect teaches us is that, well, maybe we should be looking at products whose consumption are increasing. So it's not just about looking at things that are going down in spending, but what kind of things are people purchasing instead? And that can be a sign that people are going through tough times and they're figuring out different ways to deal with that, right, to approach the problems in their own lives and their own economic lives.
Isabella [00:10:20] If I have to choose one item in makeup, it would be lipstick. You know, I worked with a lot of makeup artists when I was a model, and I asked them, If I'm in a rush, how do I make my makeup, fast? They say, Choose one item in your face that you like and emphasize it. So I thought, hmm, my lips, and that's why they're always red. Another thing we often associate with red lipstick is, of course, France. In fact, lipstick in French is rouge à lèvres, red for the lips. And so, our next story takes us to the beauty capital of the world. My home away from home, Paris.
I adore Paris. I spent part of my childhood there, and I'm fluent speaking French. And to be honest, if I didn't have my family and my farm here in the U.S., I would go back to Paris in a heartbeat. For me, the city has always had a kind of a verve, even an eccentricity to it. In one hand, they celebrate individuality, but they're also so fiercely proud of their tradition and what they contributed to the world. They have that kind of endearing French stubbornness. It is also a place that is synonymous with beauty, from the architecture and the history to the food and, of course, people. So our producer Gigi took to the streets of Paris to try to understand French beauty a little bit better. La beauté française.
Gigi [00:11:56] France is a beauty powerhouse. The country’s beauty and personal care market alone was valued at about $11.5 billion in 2023. And you can see it, walking around. Yes, it’s a beautiful place, but purchasing cosmetics and skin care is a part of day-to-day life in France. The streets of Paris are full of salons and pharmacies, and the idea of French beauty is something that the world has long been fascinated by. As an outsider, it’s really easy for me to conjure up a certain idea when I think of the phrase “French beauty.” A natural look, with a dash of red lipstick, perfectly tousled hair. These are the stereotypes, of course. But as I was walking around the city, I started wondering: How do Parisians themselves define French beauty? And so, on a beautiful, sunny day, I took myself off to a neighborhood in Paris called Belleville, or Belleville if you’ll excuse my terrible French accent, which directly translates to “beautiful town” or “beautiful city.”
Like its people, Belleville certainly has its own unique style. The streets are covered in art and graffiti, and there's a really relaxed feel to the area. It's not like your typical touristy Parisian neighborhood where there's a view of the Eiffel Tower and people are sitting outside cafes in the sun drinking coffee and eating baguettes. It felt like a real place with real people. And there were lots of kids playing in playgrounds, families walking around. And I got to asking people what they thought of when they hear the phrase “French beauty.”
Vox pop 1 [00:13:21] What is French beauty? All French women have the right to be beautiful, whether they have an elegant, refined style or not, and have the right to bring a little more diversity to French beauty, I think.
Vox pop 2 [00:13:32] Of course it was very hard before, but now the years go by and we've seen a huge evolution. I can tell you firsthand, because my parents are practicing Muslims, and I have no trouble preparing myself to look beautiful every day. Even to go buy a baguette, I have no trouble getting ready, putting on cream and going to the hairdresser.
Vox pop 3 [00:13:54] French beauty, as I see it, is a bit like classic beauty, a bit cold. If it was makeup, it will be something quite minimalist with quite cold colors, but a very bright red in terms of lipstick.
Vox pop 4 [00:14:10] There's not a single type of French beauty in the end, because there are so many different people in France.
Gigi [00:14:15] What does French beauty mean to you?
Vox pop 5 [00:14:17] Well, I think it's really about attitude, a little bit like a state of mind, or how you feel. To stand, to walk, to put on makeup or not, that kind of thing.
Vox pop 6 [00:14:30] People mix together. So because it's like that, it evolves. People meet, they’re a new generation, so yeah, it, it evolves.
Vox pop 7 [00:14:40] It has evolved, I think, since the ’80s, ’90s. Yeah, it's really evolved. And I think we can still do better.
Gigi [00:14:47] So we've heard what the people of Paris think of French beauty, but how has this informed local businesses? With pharmacies selling cosmetics on almost every street and hair salons, too, has the changing face of French beauty been reflected in the businesses that call Paris home? Well, meet entrepreneur Aude.
Aude [00:15:05] Well, it all started with chemistry. I have a Ph.D. in chemistry and I'm also an engineer. So I wanted to use chemistry to develop products for daily life. So cosmetics was one of my first choice. I spent 17 years in L'Oréal Groupe. Then I started developing products, and very soon I started working on hair, and I was totally fascinated by hair and hair care and hairdressers, and all became really entangled when I had my daughters because my husband is from African origin and my first daughter is 16 years old today. And when she was born, I discovered the world of curly hair. I'm a white person with very, very straight and fine hair. So curl was a kind of a mystery to me.
And I found at that time that in France we were very late in the hairdressing talents for curly hair. We had a few products, most of them imported from the U.S.A., but not a lot of hair salons. And I was very, very intrigued by that because I thought, I mean, my daughter was born in 2008, at that time the First Lady in the U.S. had curly hair, obviously. And it seemed to me that it was totally incoherent that there is no place in Paris, the capital of fashion, where we can properly welcome the First Lady of the United States to have her hair done. So, I decided to really try to understand what was going on there.
Gigi [00:14:29] So she left her job and set up Studio Ana’e, which means “everyone” in Tahitian. Studio Ana’e is a hair salon that promises the same quality and expertise for all kinds of hair, whether it be straight or textured. In fewer than 10 years, she's grown from one to three salons in Paris and another in Lyon. But getting started wasn't easy.
Aude [00:16:47] The first thing is that I have to say, nobody in my family was an entrepreneur. So when I started quitting my salary job and jumping into a field where I'm totally on my own, I was terrified. I couldn't sleep at night and I didn't tell my parents for two years, because I knew that my parents would go frantic about it. Like, Oh, you're quitting your safety, you're crazy. How can you do that? You were paid, blah, blah, blah. You have children, and so on. So I didn't tell. I just asked my husband. I said, Am I crazy to do it? He said No, you’re right, just go on. I believe in your project, I believe in you, what you’re doing. Just go on. But I was terrified.
And then I started just working, because it is the only thing I know. I needed to increase my knowledge about the market and to be really knowledgeable about all the challenges, the hairdressing talents, the teams and all the administration about creating a company and opening a hairdressing salon, especially in France, because there are a lot of regulations about that. The second challenge was the way the banks should look at that, because usually when you open a salon or a company, you go and borrow some money to do the construction work and all buying the equipment, and so on.
And when I went to several banks, they all told me “No, your plan is too ambitious.” The prices you are willing to achieve, you will not achieve them because there are not so many curly hair [people] in France, and curly hair people don't have so much money, to say it very bluntly. I'm sorry about that, this is what they said. And I said, You're wrong. You're wrong, because I have many friends and I see my own family, and we all want to have a premium service. But I still have to prove it. So the banks were very, very hesitating about lending me the money to do it. So I had to risk my own money. So it was a little bit of risk, but actually I had prepared a lot, you know, meeting all the people in the industry — hairdressers, hair teachers, people from the unions, people from the ministry, trying to understand what it was all about. And also in my personal life, asking a lot of ladies with curly hair, How do you manage, where do you want to go? What do you expect from a hair salon? And I really tried to answer those needs.
Gigi [00:19:04] Although hair salons for textured hair existed, Aude wanted to explore what to her was an obvious gap in the market and create something that's high-end and would benefit families like hers. Although the banks may have considered Aude to be looking at a small niche market, the numbers beg to differ.
Aude [00:19:19] If you already consider the statistics about straight-hair salons, we have one salon for 1,000 people in France, that's the average. From my experience in Paris, we would need 2,500 salons to answer the needs. And there are premium salons, there are 20 to 30 salons right now. So we are far, far away from reaching not even 10 percent of the needed numbers of salons. We are very far from that. So it shows that there is a huge market, there is a huge opportunity of growth for already-existing salons, and you should be able to enter any salon, or easily find an expert salon in curls to be able to style your hair properly.
I started to tell my hairdressers, I want us to be the best, technically speaking. But I want us to be the best as well in terms of customer experience. So I wanted to implement in the salon a real luxury moment where you have, a hairdresser is one to one with his or her client, and he's going to concentrate on her, do a real consultation that will last at least 10 to 15 minutes, and be open to any possibilities. We are not pushing any solution to our customers, so it's not our role. Especially for women. You know, women are always in the scrutiny of everyone. Everybody tells women what they should do. You should cut your hair. You should lose weight. You should be charming. You should be... and so on. So in my place, I want it to be a safe place where we stop telling women what they should do. We are here for them and whatever they like, we will do it for them on the best conditions possible. We want to have trust. When we started that, we had very nice compliments from our customers, because they told us, This is not a hair salon, it's a spa, and we are spending a wonderful time with you. We are relaxing. We are just forgetting our stress. And on top of it, we are beautiful when we go out.
Gigi [00:21:28] So, how did Aude learn about curls in the first place?
Aude [00:21:31] I'm a scientist, so scientists do look for information everywhere. So I ordered books from the U.S. I ordered the books from England, especially. There was an Afro-Caribbean specialty after the hairdressing diploma. So I ordered all the books from England and read them through. And also, I spent a lot of time working with hairdressers, especially in my previous career when I was working in Brazil. I found out that the Brazilian hairdressers are really gifted about consultation and understanding the curl. So I used to spend hours nearby the hairdresser asking her, Please, tell me what you look at, how you read the curl, how you can guess from the curl pattern that it was damaged two years ago. And I spent really, hours, I mean, it's not exaggerating, I was standing next to the hairdresser for weeks and learning from her and going through the hair and learning how to ask the proper questions.
Gigi [00:22:32] Aude is now a trained hairdresser herself. She also teaches others and has successfully lobbied for textured hairdressing skills to be on the French hairdressing diploma. So what's the future for Studio Ana’e?
Aude [00:22:45] I'm very optimistic because I know that our model is working well. We've been opening once every year for the last four years. Just after Covid, I started opening a second and a third, and once a year, actually. And I could have opened another salon this year, but I decided to take time to think about it and really organize and make some structure and some processes. And I know that the investors are really interested in the project and there are a lot of people willing to work with us, young candidates, hairdressers, which are really interested into the multitexture, the fact that we work all the hair, with a premium standard. So, you know, a lot of people just want to do their work properly. They love being a hairdresser and they want to be given chances to do a nice job in good conditions. And I know that we have achieved that.
So we are aiming at 10 to 15 salons in Western Europe in the next 10 years, I hope. And maybe later, bigger, elsewhere. There is an image I always use. You know, I'm from the Basque country, so there is a lot of surfing. And when you are surfing a wave, you cannot go against the wave. You have to be agile and follow the wave and still go where you want to go. So that's the perfect image of the entrepreneur. You have to understand the world the way it is and still try to reach your objective, but you cannot go against the wave. That's what I'm trying all the time.
Gigi [00:24:16] So, how would Aude define French beauty?
Aude [00:24:18] To me, it’s still to be invented, created. Because, honestly, French beauty is still, to me, is still based a lot on the 20th-century idea. And we have to define it on the 21st century. We have to embrace the diversity of our population and recreate this French signature on all types of hair.
Gigi [00:24:42] And, most importantly, does her daughter approve of the salon?
Aude [00:24:47] Yeah. Yeah, and she is very, very picky. She will tell me exactly what she likes and what she doesn't like. Yes, yes, of course, she loves to come to the salon a lot. Now she's 16 years old, so, you know, she's independent, she does own hair. She would not let me do her hair anymore. But my biggest pride is that she plays with her hair. And you should have fun.
Isabella [00:25:12] Of course you should have fun with your hair. I completely agree with Aude’s daughter. What stories like Aude’s bring to light is the importance of the beauty industry's ability to look critically at itself and change, to identify gaps and where there’s missing customers. It's not just about being ethical and being inclusive, but it makes for a more forward-thinking business.
Well, this is my story. In 1982, I was age 30. I became the face of Lancôme, appearing in all their ads. My face symbolized beauty. For the first years, I was under the Sois belle et tais-toi. That translates into Be beautiful and shut up. It was a typical role assigned to women. But then my role evolved as the role of women in society evolved. Women became journalists, even editor in chief of magazines. And there was curiosity about me, the model, the silent beauty. Did I use the products? What do I think about them? My role evolved from silent beauty to spokesperson. But in order to be a good spokesperson, I asked Lancôme to visit the lab, to meet the dermatologists, to meet the noses who create perfumes. I wanted to understand the product and how they would create it to be a good representative for the brand. And I was very successful at it.
But once I became 40 years old, I was let go because of my age. I was told that advertisement is about dreams, not reality. Women dream to remain young, therefore, at 40, I could not represent that dream any longer. I was really sad they let me go because I thought I had — maybe to say that I invented a job is too big — but I have created a role in the beauty industry of a woman that was represented in the advertisement that could speak up. I defeated the Sois belle et tais-toi, and I thought I did it very well. Also, my personal experience — I didn't want to remain eternally looking younger than my age. I wanted to be elegant and sophisticated forever, but not young.
Twenty-three years later, in 2016, I was completely surprised. I said, Can you fly me into Paris? I want to meet the new executives. I was so anxious. I arrived at the restaurant earlier and I see a motorcycle arriving in front of the restaurant and a woman stepping out, taking out the helmet, blond hair flowing. She comes in and she said, Hello, my name is Françoise Lehmann, I am the new C.E.O. Françoise knows that women have more than one dream because she's a woman herself. Yes, for some of us, it is important to remain as young as possible. But for others like me, I prefer to be elegant, to express sophistication. I use makeup as a tool to express myself and my creativity. I think that because Françoise is a woman, she's more ready to understand the many dreams that we women have. She can more easily imagine what we want. And Françoise doesn't let gaps in the market go unanswered, something she has in common with Aude. And speaking of beauty business opportunities, for our next story, we're flying to Seoul, South Korea, to dig into an exciting new market that is growing and growing and growing.
Shawn Issure (via interpreter) [00:29:02] Hi, everyone. My name is Jeong Hoseok and I go by Shawn on social media.
Gigi [00:29:10] Shawn has taken the beauty world by storm in recent years as an expert in K-beauty, a term used for skin care products originating in South Korea, which has turned into a global phenomenon. He started out working at the largest cosmetics company in the country, but now teaches college students about cosmetics while working as a social media content creator. And his interest in skin care and beauty goes way back.
Shawn Issure (via interpreter) [00:29:31] I think my interest in skin care and beauty goes back to my junior years in high school. Back then, I had a lot of small white bumps or small acne, and that was a very stressful experience. So my mom recommended that I try some aesthetics and beauty clinics. I also saw on the shelves at shopping marts these types of mild skin care, for example, with green tea. And that's when I first felt the need to really take care of my skin and try out these products.
Gigi [00:30:03] And is there a particular look for K-beauty?
Shawn Issure (via interpreter) [00:30:33] I think when you say healthy skin, that really is the most symbolic thing of K-beauty. Although we do use a lot of makeup, it really is all about accentuating the facial features that you have and making it look natural, all at the same time.
Gigi [00:30:23] And when you say we, what kind of users or what kind of individuals engage most with K-beauty? Is it across genders or is it mainly women?
Shawn Issure (via interpreter) [00:30:33] In my personal opinion, I don't think that the beauty industry is about gender anymore. I think it really is driven by the interests of individuals rather than gender.
Gigi [00:30:46] I guess what I'm curious about is that in South Korea it seems that a lot more men use makeup and beauty products in their day-to-day life and that it's a lot more normalized than in some other places in the world, like in the U.S., where I'm from. Would you say that's true?
Shawn Issure (via interpreter) [00:31:03] This is something that I can say without a doubt. And no matter where you go in the world, you will not find men and women who love cosmetics and beauty skin care as much as those in South Korea. The level of attention in beauty and skin care cosmetics is really through the roof.
Gigi [00:31:23] Why do you think that in South Korea — and I think it's really interesting — more men are so much more open to engaging with makeup and skin care products?
Shawn Issure (via interpreter) [00:31:31] So in my opinion, there are two main reasons. First of all is the environment. If you've ever visited Korea, you'll know that if you just walk on the streets, you'll find easily accessible retail channels and shopping malls that sell makeup, skin care and all beauty-related products. So, easy accessibility is one thing that the environment provides in South Korea. And the second reason is that people tend to compare themselves with others a lot in the South Korean culture. So that means it's very important to keep up your physical appearance. You need to look good. And I think that is really why people of all ages, whether you're a student, whether you're working at a company, a businessman, men and women, feel that high level of interest in beauty and the beauty industry as a whole.
Gigi [00:32:28] So who is the man that usually engages the most with skin care and beauty products? Or is it all ages and all backgrounds?
Shawn Issure (via interpreter) [00:32:36] Might be a little bit of a sensitive topic, but in the past there was the stereotype that guys who tend to be a little bit girlish were those who were interested in skin care and makeup. But as of now, in the year 2024, that is no longer the case. Your everyday guy, your everyday man, those who are looking for a healthy lifestyle, want to be healthier. So people who love working out, nondrinkers, nonsmokers, tend to be more interested in the beauty industry and beauty products, skin care, etc. I find that a lot of people who really want to take better care of themselves are more interested in beauty for self-care and self-maintenance purposes rather than for the fun factor or simple, just, interest.
Gigi [00:33:26] So, it's almost like cosmetics has become more of this broader idea of wellness. It's not just about doing makeup for a night out, for example. What kind of products are male K-beauty users using? And do women and men use the same products, or are the products quite gendered and separate? I know this is a really binary way of thinking about it.
Shawn Issure (via interpreter) [00:33:48] Overall, I think the genderless culture is on the rise, and makeup brands also refrain from promoting gender-based products. In fact, people tend to prefer categorizing products based on skin type rather than men's products or women's products or based on gender. So, unless a brand comes out with a very specific concept, it really is genderless, and people tend to be more interested in genderless products as well.
Gigi [00:34:18] Do you ever meet men who are nervous to try beauty products for the first time and if so, how do you reassure them?
Shawn Issure (via interpreter) [00:34:28] A lot of men will say that they can confidently walk into a department store or drugstore and purchase beauty products. But I think that's more so the case with skin care products, where people don't feel that sense of unease or that little bit of awkwardness when purchasing a beauty product. But when it comes to makeup, I think people still tend to feel a little bit awkward or uneasy when trying to purchase makeup. So for those male beauty users, I recommend that they go online, because we have a lot of content, to get that information on which products you want to try out and then purchase those products online.
Gigi [00:35:04] What kind of trends do you predict for male beauty consumption globally? Is it, is it growing?
Shawn Issure (via interpreter) [00:35:11] I've been in the beauty industry for 10 plus years, and in the beginning I began as a makeup artist working mostly on women's makeup. But now, it really seems that the grooming trend among men is also growing explosively as well. In the past, I think men have done very well in getting to that washing and cleanliness stage and up into skin care. But now, in the past three to five years, what I've seen is the awareness about the need for sunscreen beginning to grow among men. In the past, people just thought that it was something sticky, heavy, that was cumbersome, you didn't want to apply it to your face. But now people are becoming more and more aware, men especially, that sunscreen is really important to get that slow aging that we want to aspire toward.
So I think this is going to be a much more widespread and general trend moving forward in the next couple of years. And people's interest in the physical appearance of Korean men is really skyrocketing as well, because K-beauty is influenced very much by K-pop and K-drama. I've recently been in Vietnam, Kazakhstan, Chile, and I've had firsthand experiences of really feeling the interest in K-beauty being so explosive, not just among women, but also among men as well. So I think in the next 10 years, consumption centering around self-care, self-maintenance and grooming is going to increase.
Gigi [00:36:57] That's really interesting. What do you think the rest of the world can learn from K-beauty?
Shawn Issure (via interpreter) [00:37:02] It's my hope that beauty, skin care and grooming becomes a part of everyone's everyday routine. That it isn't something special or unique, because everyone wants to lead a healthy life. Everyone aspires toward healthy aging and slow aging. So I hope that men consumers, male consumers, can approach beauty products, skin care, grooming products, whatever it be, without feeling that discomfort or without balking at it.
Isabella [00:37:36] I've been part of the beauty industry now for 50 years, and I've been able to witness its growing and changing. Cosmetic used to be represented by rules. The right way to look, this foundation, this lipstick, this eyeshadow. But cosmetics can be a tool for creativity, above all, an opportunity to express oneself and play, play, play! I wish the beauty industry to provide us tools for all of us. All of us. And I'm not a businessperson, but it seems to me that including more and more clients is a good idea.
Thank you to our guests, Daniel MacDonald, Dr. Aude Livoreil-Djampou, Shawn Issure and the people of Paris,
les parisiens,
for speaking to us. And thank you for listening to this episode of “This Is Not a Beauty Podcast,” brought to you by the L'Oréal Groupe. If you have enjoyed our podcast, please subscribe now on your favorite podcast platform so you don't miss out on our new episodes and, if you don't mind, rating and reviewing so that other listeners can find us. Next, we will be venturing into the world of technology. See you soon.